00:00:08:24 – 00:00:16:20
Speaker 1
It’s the Elephant in the Dome, the official podcast of the Washington State Senate Republican Caucus. I’m Tracy Ellis with Senate Republican Leader
00:00:16:22 – 00:00:33:21
Speaker 1
John Braun. I’d actually thought we’d start today across the rotunda in the House of Representatives, where procedural motions to force debate on bills aimed at removing children from drug abuse in homes failed not once, not twice, but three times.
00:00:33:23 – 00:00:41:24
Speaker 1
Late Monday night, after majority, Democrats refused to bring the measure to the floor. John Sattgast has more on that.
00:00:41:26 – 00:00:59:11
Speaker 2
Republican Representative Travis Couture made three rare procedural motions to pull stalled child protection bills directly from committee, saying lawmakers must act to save children living in homes where fentanyl and other drugs are being abused. He told lawmakers Washington is seeing preventable child deaths tied to drug exposure.
00:00:59:12 – 00:01:10:26
Speaker 1
A lot of these parents spend more time loving the drugs that they are consuming. Instead of loving their kids. Not to say that they don’t love their kids, but they love the drugs more.
00:01:10:26 – 00:01:23:27
Speaker 2
Democrats opposed the motion, saying bills should only move through the committee process. But Couture argued the committee deadline has already passed, meaning the bills are now likely dead this session. He urged lawmakers to act before more children are harmed. We have created
00:01:23:27 – 00:01:28:04
Speaker 1
a system that escalates risk upon risk until finally that kid is harmed,
00:01:28:08 – 00:01:39:25
Speaker 2
nearly dead or dead. All three motions failed largely along party line votes, putting in doubt efforts this session to change state law governing the removal of children from homes where parents abuse hard drugs.
00:01:39:28 – 00:01:55:03
Speaker 1
Well, not totally. One bill that is alive in the House is Senator Braun’s measure that adds fentanyl to the state’s child endangerment law. It sailed through the Senate 40 to 9, but the House has blocked it three years in a row.
00:01:55:05 – 00:02:08:18
Speaker 1
And joining us, along with Senator Braun, is Jamie Williams with Fostering Change Fostering Change Washington. She’s a former labor and delivery nurse and a foster parent with a focus on drug exposed newborns.
00:02:08:22 – 00:02:14:01
Speaker 1
Senator Braun why don’t we start by talking about your bill? What would it do exactly?
00:02:14:04 – 00:02:40:17
Speaker 2
It’s a very simple bill, and it’s by no means going to solve all our problems, but it simply adds fentanyl to the child endangerment statute, making it possible for when, parents expose their children, particularly young children, to fentanyl. There are some consequences, some avenues that law enforcement can take, to to hold parents accountable. And I understand that we want to get these folks, help with their addiction.
00:02:40:19 – 00:03:02:11
Speaker 2
But it doesn’t, foreclose the responsibility they have to keep children safe. And when there are no consequences, we’re going to continue to see the kind of bad outcomes we’ve seen across our state on a growing number over the last few years. So, simple, simple, Bill. We acknowledge that, in the bill this year is that we want to get, we want to keep families together where we can.
00:03:02:14 – 00:03:07:13
Speaker 2
We want to get them treatment. But there also have to be consequences if we expect there to be a change.
00:03:07:16 – 00:03:11:22
Speaker 1
It’s sailed through the Senate again, as I mentioned. What are its chances in the House this year, do you think?
00:03:11:26 – 00:03:34:13
Speaker 2
Well, we’re still working on that. I think as you point out, this is the only bill that is still alive after after cut off that could do something and not it won’t fix the problem, but it’ll do something in the right direction to help us address this growing, trend in child fatalities or near fatalities. And I think I think we’re in better shape, but I’m certainly not counting on on success just yet.
00:03:34:13 – 00:03:35:15
Speaker 2
We’ve got work to do.
00:03:35:17 – 00:03:38:26
Speaker 1
Jamie, why is this Bill important to you?
00:03:38:29 – 00:04:02:12
Speaker 3
Well, not just as a foster parent of nearly a decade now, but as a former labor and delivery nurse, like you said. I’ve cared for babies whose first experience in this world was withdrawal. I’ve watched newborns shake with tremors. I’ve heard their high pitched, inconsolable screams. I’ve cared for babies born in toilets. I have live slated babies out when they’ve stopped breathing.
00:04:02:14 – 00:04:27:18
Speaker 3
I’ve seen what risk looks like before. It becomes fatal. And, you know, Senate Bill 50, 71, it’s about preventing more of those stories. And so it really is baffling to me that we’re in a place where there’s such a divide on this issue. And I’ve tried to give a lot of the benefit of the doubt to this blockade and where it’s coming from.
00:04:27:18 – 00:04:33:00
Speaker 3
And and my patience is running thin, not just as a foster parent, but as a medical professional.
00:04:33:06 – 00:04:49:00
Speaker 1
So what can people do? Senator Braun, I mean, you have Jamie here. She has her own podcast and her own audience. She could probably help out. What can people do to put some pressure on the house to maybe move this bill forward?
00:04:49:03 – 00:05:15:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, in the end, this comes down to one committee chaired by Representative Goodman that has to decide, if they’d rather, you know, kind of spend, you know, their allegiance to this ideology that says we can do no more, no more in the way of additional, you know, potential for criminal charges. They, you know, regardless of the circumstances, regardless of the tragic outcomes for babies and young children around the state.
00:05:15:23 – 00:05:37:07
Speaker 2
We got to get past that. And the only way you get past that is by people, across the state and certainly in their districts, calling them, talking to them in person and expressing their frustration. Is there maybe even anger? But their demand, more than anything that they do something that they stop sitting on their hands while this situation gets worse and worse in our state.
00:05:37:11 – 00:05:54:09
Speaker 2
And and that’s really the roadblock. The votes are there. I guarantee you, if Representative Goodman will bring this to a hearing, bring it to a vote. The votes are there to move this out of committee and across the floor of the House and to the governor’s desk for signature. They just gotta be willing to get out of the way.
00:05:54:09 – 00:06:16:00
Speaker 2
And so far, they haven’t been to. We’ve made our our effort. We said we acknowledge, as I said earlier, we acknowledge that that there is there’s a there may be a slightly better path. We put that in the bill. We’ve advocated for it. We just need more folks from outside Olympia, to bring a real world perspective in and help them understand that they don’t just represent a narrow ideological base, they represent everybody in the state.
00:06:16:00 – 00:06:20:01
Speaker 2
And the people broadly in the state are demanding change on this, this policy.
00:06:20:05 – 00:06:25:10
Speaker 1
Jamie, you talk to a lot of people. Are is there support for this bill out there?
00:06:25:13 – 00:06:52:13
Speaker 3
Oh, there’s a lot of support. I think it what it really comes down to are the Democrats willing to listen. Are they willing to put the political divide aside and and do what’s right? It’s not a left versus right issue. I think Travis mentioned that on the floor the other night. It’s a right versus wrong issue. There are voices all around the state crying out, and what really floors me is that it’s coming from the social workers.
00:06:52:18 – 00:07:13:24
Speaker 3
The union reps, from the social workers are crying out for a lifeline every single session. And what’s handed to them is a life preserver with a gaping hole in it. And so I think it comes down to a matter of can we can we get loud enough? Can we, can we build up this momentum and amplify this in a way that gets their attention?
00:07:13:24 – 00:07:40:10
Speaker 3
And I think, one of the things, that’s been really helpful is when media outlets get Ahold of these stories, that’s been a tremendous help you. And I’m sure you all have heard about the boy in the tent living on Aurora Avenue. He, you know, he was living in, a tent with rat feces, drug paraphernalia and use condoms while his mom was engaging in prostitution to to fuel her lifestyle.
00:07:40:13 – 00:08:15:23
Speaker 3
And these stories, they pull, up at the heart strings of of Washingtonians. And so I think we need more of that. We need more media to grab a hold of these stories. Because I’ll tell you, the boy in the tent is the tip of the iceberg. Now that that is not even the worst. And in fact, there was, a new episode that came out from an independent, journalist, a kind of, program that dove into the case in Yakima from last year, where a baby was found dead in her crib and another one starving to death in her crib.
00:08:15:26 – 00:08:37:12
Speaker 3
And you see the police footage, the body cams of the environment that these children are living. And you hear from the relatives saying, we told CPS, the grandparents begging CPS to intervene. Let us take the kids, let us take custody. You hear from the friends saying that the mom never answered the door to CPS? She doesn’t have to.
00:08:37:12 – 00:09:07:22
Speaker 3
That’s that’s not the first time we’ve heard that, where parents don’t have to open the door, they don’t have to follow through with these services. And so, those stories are heart wrenching. And I think when you attach faces, to these headlines, and you attach the headlines to these bills, it really hits differently. And so I really think that moving forward, we really do need to partner with with outlets that are there willing to cover these stories.
00:09:07:24 – 00:09:26:02
Speaker 2
We’ve had some, you know, not enough, in my view, but some cover. Even the Seattle Times has come out and strong support of this bill. And this is this isn’t a mystery to folks who stand in their way. They know, there is broad public support for it. They have just not been willing so far. And I’m not giving up, to break with their, you know, their ideological partners.
00:09:26:02 – 00:09:46:29
Speaker 2
And, and you mentioned the frontline workers, the, the case workers, you know, they have a tough job and my heart’s with them. They are not staffed adequately. We’ve grown management and middle management in the Department of Children, Youth and Families by leaps and bounds while leaving our frontline workers. Really, to fend for themselves. So this is something we can give to help them.
00:09:47:00 – 00:10:14:14
Speaker 2
I think we need a lot more, frankly, than just this. But this is a start to get us headed in the right direction. And and I couldn’t agree more. We need more coverage. More people in the state of Washington need to understand what’s happening. The that the current, folks in leadership roles in the House Democratic Caucus are standing in the way of progress and demand that more be done to keep, these young children alive and getting them into safer, healthier, more productive environments.
00:10:14:16 – 00:10:28:11
Speaker 1
I think one of the frustrations for Republicans often is that the Democrats are in the majority. But this bill, as I mentioned, passed the Senate 40 to 9, and there are only 19 Republicans. So that means a lot of the Democrats voted for it.
00:10:28:14 – 00:10:43:26
Speaker 2
Yeah. This is why I say I’m confident if it brought to a vote, there are votes to pass this. This is a pretty hard bill to vote against. And there and it’s passed. I want to remind it’s passed off the floor of the Senate, I believe, three, maybe four times, because before I had this bill, Senator Linda Wilson had this bill for a couple of years.
00:10:44:00 – 00:10:54:02
Speaker 2
So there is support there. They we just have a couple people standing in its path. And those folks need to recognize that they are doing great harm to the kids of the state.
00:10:54:04 – 00:11:14:06
Speaker 1
One challenge is finding places for these kids to go after what they’re taken away from, parents and from a drug infested home like that. This is where people like you come in, Jamie, in your. I know you’re working hard to recruit foster parents all the time. Are there people out there willing to to take these kids?
00:11:14:09 – 00:11:35:17
Speaker 3
Absolutely. In fact, I’ll even just say in my own personal situation right now, my home is open and my phone doesn’t ring anymore. I spoke with a nurse in the NICU last week who said, we have three babies withdrawing right now from fentanyl. And I said, are they going to go home? And she said, probably because that’s where they all go.
00:11:35:17 – 00:11:57:03
Speaker 3
They all go back to their parents who are actively using and they go home. And so, so yes, I’m open. I know I have two families in a small town where I’m at. I’m in Walla Walla, and I’ve got two great families right now who are going through the licensing process. But it’s not easy. It’s not easy because we’ve had WACs that have changed that
00:11:57:07 – 00:12:23:20
Speaker 3
have required foster parents to affirm and support gender ideology. As a medical professional, that is something I am very much against. And so they don’t make it easy. I mean, I’ll even just, you know, in my own personal experience of being re licensed a couple years ago, we live on five acres with animals, and we have a creek that is, overrun by by by blackberry bushes.
00:12:23:22 – 00:12:45:02
Speaker 3
And, they wanted me to fence five acres, of that creek that maybe in it’s and, you know, and it’s fast flowing season is about three inches deep. And, I had to make the, the point that my thousand pound animals out there can’t even get to that creek bed to drink from it. And you want me to fence the whole thing?
00:12:45:02 – 00:13:06:16
Speaker 3
I mean, it’s outrageous sometimes what they are asking of foster parents. So I would say they don’t make it easy. I will also be fair and say that we need good homes. We need foster parents who are good foster parents. And and with that, you do have to vet, pretty deeply. It feels very invasive. And I understand that there’s a reason for that.
00:13:06:19 – 00:13:25:15
Speaker 3
And of course, you know, bad ones, they slip through the cracks. And so I understand why they do what they have to do. But, it’s definitely not easy, but absolutely. There. I have had a flood of messages come in saying if it wasn’t for the vaccine standards, if it wasn’t for the gender ideology, if it wasn’t for this, like we we would want to do this.
00:13:25:17 – 00:13:32:14
Speaker 3
And so that’s what, I think is really sad about the whole situation. But absolutely, there are, there are families that that want to help.
00:13:32:16 – 00:13:48:27
Speaker 1
And Senator Braun and Jamie makes some good points here. It’s part of it. This is part of an overall issue that is just seems to have got has gotten worse with fentanyl. Everything. It’s putting pressure on every part of the system, isn’t it?
00:13:48:29 – 00:14:12:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think there’s there’s several issues here. I just highlight a few. First there’s this. So what this push to normalize, addiction, to normalize drug use, and deeply harmful to our society. You know, we’ve seen the record number of deaths at one time. I think we’re not quite the first in the nation, but we’ve been at or near the First in the Nation in growth of overdose deaths in our country, for some time now.
00:14:12:09 – 00:14:31:09
Speaker 2
And it’s all the direct result of trying to normalize addiction rather than and I’m a I’m a big supporter of getting services to folks. I mean, I think they need help. We need to put them in a position to accept help and use that. But they’re also but we also can’t normalize it. If we want to be successful, then add to that this and some of it has some value.
00:14:31:09 – 00:14:51:23
Speaker 2
This effort to keep families together. And I acknowledge there’s a lot of value in keeping families together. But we also have to acknowledge where there is real danger, real risk to children. That’s not a viable option. And we have, you know, in the effort to sort, you know, address one problem we’ve swung so far in that direction that that the agency is no longer looking at real risk to children.
00:14:51:23 – 00:15:23:26
Speaker 2
They’re looking at they’re turning a blind eyes, and people and kids are dying as a result. And then and I’m delighted that there are still, great foster parents out there, but we’ve made it super hard on foster parents. And I and I acknowledge, as you said, there needs to be a vetting process, but we don’t need to to, but to vet people along ideological lines to vet people, along these types of, of, you know, that’s that’s the wrong way to choose, a healthy home to put a foster, foster child.
00:15:23:29 – 00:15:38:25
Speaker 2
We’re just so far off base when it comes to making it accessible, you know, standards. Yes, but inaccessible. No. We should welcome folks who are willing to give part of their lives to help these children and help them be successful rather than standing in the way in this.
00:15:38:26 – 00:15:59:16
Speaker 3
And I would just piggyback off of that if I could. Tracy, go ahead. What you said about fentanyl, too, I think it’s so important to recognize is that Washington’s endangerment statute is very outdated. It was written during the meth lab era, and we’re dealing with drugs that are 50 times more powerful than heroin. They are 100 times more powerful than morphine.
00:15:59:18 – 00:16:23:20
Speaker 3
And to your point, they have killed more Americans than the decade long Vietnam War. We are dealing with a beast. And and like you had mentioned earlier, the fact that anybody couldn’t come to the table and get on board with this bill is, is immoral. And in my opinion, it’s not extremism. This is basic child safety.
00:16:23:22 – 00:16:28:23
Speaker 2
This is humanity. This is trying to take care of our most vulnerable, literally our most vulnerable.
00:16:28:25 – 00:16:40:14
Speaker 1
As Jamie mentioned. And you talked about this before, this bill was written for methamphetamine, which certainly was a problem, and it still is in some cases. But, fitness was a much bigger problem. You’re just adding that.
00:16:40:20 – 00:17:06:21
Speaker 2
It’s just broadening it to deal with our current situation and couldn’t be more right. The danger, to children and frankly, adults as well of fentanyl relative to previous drugs was are meth or whatever. It’s much, much greater. And and again, it’s all you know, the what’s stopping this bill is all this ideological ideology that we we can’t criminalize addiction, that we can’t make our, our criminal justice system work.
00:17:06:23 – 00:17:26:29
Speaker 2
And they’re wrong. Absolutely. There should be services. But if there are not consequences when you endanger and sometimes kill a child or nearly, nearly kill a child, we’re going to, you know, we’re not going to stop this crisis. We’re not going to be able to turn this thing around and keep these children safe. If there are not consequences of some at some point.
00:17:27:04 – 00:17:31:06
Speaker 2
And this is not a radical bill, what’s radical is standing in the way of this bill.
00:17:31:08 – 00:17:55:02
Speaker 3
During the hearing for, the early learning services Committee, the human services, one of the committees that that viewed these three bills, that, you know, didn’t make it through the House, there was a woman that came and testified and she gave a beautiful testimony, a mother who had her children removed when she was struggling with addiction.
00:17:55:05 – 00:18:19:20
Speaker 3
And she said I needed to have my kids removed. I needed that motivation. I needed to have consequences. And accountability in order for me to get my life on track. And I did, and I got my kids back. But she was testifying in favor of, of Tom Dent’s Bill saying, we need to change this language because right now we’re giving a pass.
00:18:19:22 – 00:18:35:29
Speaker 3
We’ve normalize it, as Senator Braun has said, and she she gave a beautiful testimony as someone that has gone through addiction herself, she has said, we absolutely need consequences. We need accountability. And and that’s really what’s going to pave the way for sobriety. Now, Senator Braun
00:18:36:01 – 00:18:50:15
Speaker 1
I would assume that you would see that as a success story really, kids are taken away, but person gets treatment, gets her life together, gets cleaned up, gets kids back. I mean, isn’t that a success story? Is that what you really ultimately would like to see?
00:18:50:15 – 00:19:18:10
Speaker 2
100%? I mean, this is not a disagreement over trying to keep families together. It’s not a dis, it’s nothing like that. It’s it’s simply, acknowledging the fact that some folks who are addicted to these drugs, they’re not getting help on their own. There needs to be some leverage. And we’ve had this broader discussion when we dealt with the Blake decision and enormous negative, you know, consequences over the couple years after that where we saw our overdose rate skyrocket.
00:19:18:12 – 00:19:35:18
Speaker 2
And, and, and and ultimately, the legislature came to a conclusion. This is. Yes, we have to involve keep law enforcement involved. We have to, in law, involve the criminal justice system. We can do it in a way that helps put people back on a good path. And whether it’s through the drug courts and and you probably wouldn’t be shocked.
00:19:35:18 – 00:19:53:01
Speaker 2
The number of people I hear from and my colleagues here from who have been in a situation something like that and have it have been basically held to a standard as a result of the criminal justice system, a lot of times through drug court. And it help them put their lives back together to get on a better path so they could reunite their families at some point.
00:19:53:05 – 00:20:11:10
Speaker 2
This is the right answer. But just looking the other way, which is what they currently want to do, just look at it another way, normalize it. Ignore the tragic consequences. There couldn’t be a worse answer. It’s the it’s the worst answer it’s the worst answer for children, quite clearly it’s also the worse answer for parents. This is we are on a bad course right now.
00:20:11:13 – 00:20:14:26
Speaker 2
We need to correct that course. And this is a small step in the right direction.
00:20:14:29 – 00:20:24:05
Speaker 1
Again we talked about this earlier. What do people need to do specifically. What should they do to put pressure on House leadership to get this bill across
00:20:24:05 – 00:20:54:14
Speaker 2
The finish line? The most powerful? I’ve said this many times, I know I believe it and I’ll say it over and over. The most powerful influence in Olympia is not the lobbyists. It’s not some, you know, policy board. It’s it’s real people, actual people who are in your district calling, showing up in person, writing a letter, not a manufactured letter, but a real letter or an email sharing what the failure to act on this bill is doing to their lives, their families lives, their friends lives?
00:20:54:17 – 00:21:10:14
Speaker 2
That’s what moves people, in my view. Real people sharing how this is impacting them, their communities. And the more we do that, the better chance we have of of of getting their attention, of helping them recognize that they’re on the wrong side of this issue and getting them to move to the right side.
00:21:10:16 – 00:21:15:11
Speaker 1
And, Jamie, you’re talking about these things on your podcast. Where can people catch that?
00:21:15:13 – 00:21:35:02
Speaker 3
Yes, we our podcast is called Change the Story. You can find it on all streaming platforms. You can, follow us at Fostering Change Washington on all social media platforms. And and I, I couldn’t agree more with Senator Braun. I think we need to keep up the momentum. We need to keep getting these stories out. We need to hear from people.
00:21:35:09 – 00:21:56:08
Speaker 3
And in fact, I’ve got a podcast coming up, in a few weeks where I’ve talked to a relative on the West side who is her cousin, just had baby number five who’s withdrawing from fentanyl in the NICU, and she is just ready to lose her mind how this again has been normalized for for her cousin, there hasn’t been any repercussions.
00:21:56:08 – 00:22:13:11
Speaker 3
There’s been no accountability. And the children are the ones that ultimately suffer, and the family members as well. And so, we’ll do our best to keep putting out those stories. We appreciate the relationships that we have been able to make with, those in Olympia who are willing to listen to us and, and get our input.
00:22:13:13 – 00:22:20:14
Speaker 3
That’s so appreciated. So I just want to extend my appreciation for you guys and and thank you for inviting me on today.
00:22:20:16 – 00:22:31:24
Speaker 1
That’s Jamie Williams with Fostering Change. I’m Tracy Ellis with Senate Republican leader John Braun. And this is the elephant in the dome, the official podcast of the Washington State Senate Republican Caucus.